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Re: Help with actual Voltages if you can
nikothenomad #685551 March 28th 2015 9:17 pm
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LOL Uncle Fester, so that's the secret! -Working on my old Dodge B100 van without those spark tools is how I got all that afro-y hair back in the mid-80's! smile

"You, you light up my life..." LOL!!

(I'm on the right, my van is on the left)
[Linked Image]


-It's been such a LONG TIME... BlueShift>> 1981 Dodge Ram B250 Custom Sportsman Maxi Van


[Linked Image]

It's what you learn after you know it all, that counts...

Are you living to work, or working to live?

[Linked Image]

Learning from my own mistakes is good, learning from yours would be much better! [Linked Image]
Re: Help with actual Voltages if you can
Ram4ever #685569 March 29th 2015 1:07 am
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Originally Posted by Ram4ever
Much safer than holding onto a loose wire


Aw, come on. Nothing like a couple dozen thousand volts to wake you up!
http://vidmg.photobucket.com/albums/v484/slantsixgoon/Hydro%20Motor/IMG_0906.mp4

In this video I am adjusting the timing on my brother's slant six equipped 83 Dodge while he tries to start it. The van runs a Ford e-core coil and the coil to distributor cap wire sometimes doesn't seat fully on the coil tower on the cap. crazy laugh

Last edited by Reed; March 29th 2015 1:07 am.

Windows- they're what make a van worth owning!
Re: Help with actual Voltages if you can
nikothenomad #685611 March 29th 2015 7:45 pm
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You guys are cracking me up! I have been lucky so far to avoid voltage shocks so my fro came from somewhere else. :o)

Ram, thanks for the PM and for the response here. I'll get to the PM later but for now, at least I can see that your results are very similar to mine (cold weather considering).

I think that the main thing that makes this confusing sometimes to me is that my FSM states to turn the ignition switch to ON position and read battery voltage at the coil + and -. The first confusion point is that "ON" which I would technically interpret as one click forward (toward the dash) doesn't do much other than make the key buzzer sound. Two clicks forward which is what I would call RUN is where I see the voltages show up but then they are not what my FSM says that they should be.

So.... all that being said... I'm curious about key positions for everyone and what they do:

Here are mine.

Regular placement which I would call Off or Lock - is the location at which it sits before you put the key in.

One position backwards (toward rear of van) - I get key in buzzer and radio and other accessories (I assume... don't have any connected)

One position forward from OFF / LOCK - all I seem to get is key in buzzer - is this called ON?

Two positions forward - which I would call RUN is where the radio comes on and the switch returns after a start.

Third position is all the way forward I'd call that START and it springs back to RUN once switch is released.



Nicole
1988 Dodge B250 5.9l 360 Ram CamperVan / 727 Tranny / Rochester Quadrajet Carb
www.nikothenomad.blogspot.com
Re: Help with actual Voltages if you can
nikothenomad #685627 March 29th 2015 10:54 pm
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The actions you describe sound right. One click back is normal called "Accessory" or ACC. One click forward is usually "RUN" and two clicks forward is usually called "START." I'm not sure why you have three forward positions. Run is usually a rather large portion of the forward movement. Are you sure it isn't just sticking a little instead of actually having three forward positions?


Windows- they're what make a van worth owning!
Re: Help with actual Voltages if you can
nikothenomad #685630 March 30th 2015 4:43 am
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I agree 100% with Reed; he's right on target, and perhaps this is what the root of the issue with your getting good readings has been. -There's no three positions forward!

You'd mentioned having thought there might be some wear in your ignition switch, and that you replaced the (electrical) ignition switch assembly itself. You and I have both done that. But due to vague feeling switch detents, I also replaced the lock cylinder and some of the drive mechanism which the cylinder moves, such as the rack and sector gears. The key switch stop positions became much better defined and repeatable after that.

That being said, even the FSM says that the "lock" position is the most positively defined in location.

I've been suspicious of your ignition switch assembly possibly requiring some refinement to its adjustment after the replacement, or of its actuator rod being bent, but I hadn't caught onto the wear in your lock cylinder and drive mechanism being so substantial.

I think you might benefit substantially from replacing your lock cylinder. They're not expensive at all, $15-20, and they come with brand new keys. (Melanie would be thrilled...) smile This eliminates wear of the keys and of the tumblers as sources of trouble.

You could also clean up the rack and sector gears and decide if they warrant any further action. I'm sure that at the very least they'd benefit from a refreshing of their 30 year old lubricant!!

In case you should need it, due to damage to the gears such as chipped or worn teeth, here's your secret weapon - the "Rack Package". This is what I got in addition to the lock cylinder, and these kits are still in stock (-will wonders never cease!!) ;) at Chrysler dealers.

Chrysler part #4147364 - Rack package
PARTS: Rack package includes rack, bearing, sector and spring.

At http://www.wholesalemopar.com/parts_catalog.html these kits show up for $55.

Here's a decent picture of what's in the kit:

http://www.amazon.com/Steering-Column-Tilt-Bearing-Rack/dp/B00ADWKEXI

You may need to borrow a steering wheel puller from an auto parts store to make the job practical, but I'm certain you wouldn't find the replacement to be overly challenging. The hardest part might actually be trying to squint hard enough to make out the details in the illustrations in the FSM!

Here's a bunch of videos of the various processes:

http://www.steeringcolumnservices.c.../GM-Tilt-Column-Rebuild-Instructions.php

And a couple of very detailed descriptions, including the procedure for adjusting the ignition switch assy:

http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/wiki/images/d/d6/Jazzman_Steering_Rack_Rebuild.pdf

http://vintage.mitchell1.com/PClubData/chassis/dch82/V2D8212017.pdf

One other potentially useful tip on the Dodge van steering columns; standard steering columns were made by Chrysler, while tilt steering columns were made by Saginaw. Saginaw columns appeared in numerous other vehicles, not all of which were Dodge! The reason I point this out is that if Chrysler dealers belch out their typical well-rehearsed refrain of "no longer available", there may still be plenty of other sources elsewhere for parts. A GM dealer for instance... smile



-It's been such a LONG TIME... BlueShift>> 1981 Dodge Ram B250 Custom Sportsman Maxi Van


[Linked Image]

It's what you learn after you know it all, that counts...

Are you living to work, or working to live?

[Linked Image]

Learning from my own mistakes is good, learning from yours would be much better! [Linked Image]
Re: Help with actual Voltages if you can
nikothenomad #685704 March 31st 2015 8:14 pm
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We went out and adjusted the ignition switch to every possible position and we still have one click back from off and two potential clicks forward before it goes into 'spring' mode for starting. At some point I will need to look into the key lock cylinder. It has always been a little finicky but I would be surprised if these clicks that I get (which are very obvious and do not change) were not supposed to be there. I have been surprised before though!

Since Ram's voltage readings were similar enough to mine and we pulled the air horn off of the carb to find the float bowl was dry (hence the starting trouble - this time around), for now, we'll get the carb back together and know that the bowl is emptying faster for some reason since we've reached eastern humidity and heat.

We'll focus on making sure she starts and drives so we are able to get to our next destination where I will put my primary efforts into those door hinges.



Nicole
1988 Dodge B250 5.9l 360 Ram CamperVan / 727 Tranny / Rochester Quadrajet Carb
www.nikothenomad.blogspot.com
Re: Help with actual Voltages if you can
nikothenomad #685707 March 31st 2015 9:24 pm
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With the ignition switch removed, or its push rod, is there another click when the key is moved?

I looked on RockAuto, and our vans, mines an '89, use the same ignition switch, called the starter switch on R/A. Mine is a tilt column. I only have 2 forward clicks before the spring to start engages. I know my key cylinder is worn, I can pull the key out before it is turned all the way back.

My windshield wipers work when turned backwards to ACC. My Stereo is hardwired to house batteries though, and not sure what else works with ACC on. I almost never use that position anyway.

Re: Help with actual Voltages if you can
nikothenomad #685709 March 31st 2015 9:29 pm
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68, the two clicks before spring engages seem to be there no matter what. What activates on yours at the first turn forward? Mine seems to be only key in buzzer.



Nicole
1988 Dodge B250 5.9l 360 Ram CamperVan / 727 Tranny / Rochester Quadrajet Carb
www.nikothenomad.blogspot.com
Re: Help with actual Voltages if you can
nikothenomad #685722 April 01st 2015 3:14 am
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On the second day of ownership of my van back in 2001, I located the buzzer, ripped it out, and hammered it into tiny pieces with progressively larger hammers accompanied by more and more virulent sailor's curses.

So nothing happens on mine on the first click that I notice. Second click the check engine light comes on and I hear the Idle speed actuator motor kick in, past second click cranks the starter, and if the engine is somewhat warm, and I am using my 930CCA AGM battery to crank the starter, it starts with the smallest blip of the starter.

Overnight cold takes about half a second before engine catches.

But mine is fuel injected

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